Anne Hartnett: Hi, I’m Anne Hartnett, founder and publisher of Seattle Agent magazine, and I’d like to welcome you to Brokerage Culture, where we do a deep dive and talk about the qualities and characteristics that distinguish different brokerages and what sets them apart from their peers.

Recruiting and retaining talent has always been the heart of brokerage success, and it’s only gotten more challenging with new models and more competition, especially as national sales volumes have tightened. 

Who you attract and who you keep really determines whether you thrive or just get by. Now, we’re in the era of mega brokerages. The Compass and Anywhere merger is creating the world’s largest real estate platform, a move that changes the landscape in terms of scale, influence and market share. The big question now is: how do brokerages compete against that kind of size and reach?

Today, we’re talking with leaders who are shaping what brokerage growth, team development and franchise ownership looks like in this environment. I’d like to introduce you to Val Burmester, Realogics Sotheby’s International Realty director of strategic growth; Rachel Schindler, RSIR and principal partner at RE-VESTA Group; and Dean Jones, RSIR owner and CEO.  

For Realtors thinking about switching brokerages, what makes RSIR’s approach to agent support and growth stand out from others in the market? 

Dean Jones: What a great question, and first and foremost, let me say that we are always focused on Main Street and what our brokers need, they are our business partners. But we can’t ignore what’s happening on Wall Street. And I am just elated that our first class seats will be updated and upgraded further so we can fly higher, further and more efficiently within this industry that we share together. And I do feel like the best will keep getting better together when number one and number two amalgamates the market force of influence and resources, turning competitors into collaborators is something exciting to consider, but we like our seats, being boutique in our approach, being bespoke in our level of service and being local leaders in global luxury, that will never change. 

Notwithstanding, the share distribution and added resources that come to our company, and it’s the family that we choose. And as I’m sure Val and Rachel could attest to, that’s how it feels here. A very powerful boutique, that is now ascending further with some of these recent announcements.  

Hartnett: Val, you’ve described a new era of inspiration, education and activation. What does that look like day to day for brokers and how does it translate into more business?  

Val Burmester: Oh my gosh. In so many ways. You know, at Realogic Sotheby’s International Realty, they developed a learning curriculum called accelerate for brokers for all their phases of real estate in their career from, you know, early on to, you know, if you are stagnant for a little bit and also to create a legacy like, and we’ll get further into that. 

And just it, it’s education at a different level because you don’t really bring new agents on. So we’re always bettering ourselves. We, have countless opportunities from collaborative learning sessions, we bring in guest speakers to help us. We have ninja installation, impromptu collaborations. That and happy hours hosted by different agents. Dean’s meetings are impactful. He is an owner that is so involved in the business and so knowledgeable. And it it’s extraordinary to be in our meetings because they’re informative. They bring speakers in and then on top of it, we have usually a panel of agents in our office that are living through something that all of us will need to learn from. It’s empowering.  

Hartnett: Dean, you’ve talked about building RSIR like a new development. What are the distinct advantages you offer to top producers that they can’t find elsewhere?  

Jones: I hope there are many. And we’re witness to some of that right here in this presentation with Rachel and Valerie for all their reasons. But, you know, as a builder, I wanted to build new construction. New to me means novel, something that is going to be cutting edge and something that is going to be well respected and stand the test of time. And, like we have it in our development portfolio. That’s what we’re doing now in the brokerage world, and we’re building it, one brokerage and one branch at a time. I was always interested in partnering with my brokers, back in 2010, when we bridge from new construction into resale. I went to the best and brightest, the brokers that I respected, the brokers that I use. And I said I’d like to invite you to our family. We’re going to venture to create a new kind of company. What is it that you need to stand out in a sea of sameness for brokers? I want to resist commoditization. I want to have distinct advantages, and those are ones that are exclusive to our firm, but also add value to our brokers. 

And by continuing to partner with our brokers, our steering committee, and also with our network, as Rachel was speaking to, these are very passionate owners and operators and top producing brokers around the world that really do share and collaborate. So I feel like I have, you know, the original version of AI because it is the acronym is SR. I think it’s Sotheby’s Real Estate for sure. It’s been a powerful network to learn and grow and apply best practices locally, and that’s just something that we will continue to do into the future. Notwithstanding some other recent news. 

Rachel Schindler: Myself personally, when I was at the brokerage that’s very big here in the Northwest for a long period of time, I found it really challenging because you are kind of an independent contractor, and you’re your own little ship in this crazy, crazy sea, and everyone’s competing with you. And I think one of the real benefits for us at Realogics Sotheby’s International Realty was the fact that I could create a team and I could create an environment where I’m now a fleet of ships in this crazy storm. But we get to sail together in a way that wasn’t embraced at other brokerages.  

Hartnett: How does a Sotheby’s International Realty brand, combined with Compass platform, give your agents the best of both worlds when it comes to listing referrals and growth opportunities? 

Jones: Well, I’d like to say, for instance, I believe Compass greatly desired our established global network of luxury brokers around the world. And on this pursuit of creating market share, not just nationally, but globally, it was an obvious target, just as it was for Christie’s International Real Estate. On the other hand, I have always envied Robert Reffkin’s investment potential, with venture capital, with moving to where he felt the market was moving next, being highly entrepreneurial and innovative with some of the tech tools that were adopted and sometimes challenging the status quo within the industry as well. 

That wasn’t always something that was afforded to the Anywhere brand. You know, given their capital stock and to their existing infrastructure leadership. But you take two competitive leadership teams and you put them together. And that is a powerful network where the best and the brightest will come together to, I believe, truly innovate in the industry going forward. So I’m very excited about our future together.  

Hartnett: Rachel, you’ve built your legacy plan around mentorship and team development. For newer brokers, why is mentorship critical and how does RSIR deliver it differently?  

Schindler: So it’s funny because there was an email that came in today that was had a quote that is fantastic and it’s “the greatest contribution of a leader is to make another leader” and I think that that speaks the truth to what I want to do and what my team wants to do, and what Sotheby’s as a whole supports us in. And that really is taking everyone and educating them in a great environment where we have support and knowledge and collaboration. And so it’s just been a world of difference for us coming back into Sotheby’s to experience the ability to actually see my vision come to fruition. So, you know, I’ve been with a business partner since 2011, and we decided as we’re getting into our mid 50s, that it was time to figure out how can we maintain this and keep doing it and, and not lose it, because most agents brand under their name, and when they retire, they take some referral business and then that’s it. Then it’s done. And that didn’t make sense to me at all. And so we’ve worked with a consultant and with our team to come up with a way and rebranded. So now we’re revamped to group so that that brand can continue on past when, you know, Robyn [Kimira Hsu, RE-VESTA principal broker and founding member] and I think about retiring eventually, whenever that will be. 

And Sotheby’s has been incredibly supportive of that, which is game changing for us.  

Jones: Rachel, let me build off of that, because part of our steering committee and meeting with you and Robyn, who have been so influential, with your mentoring program and helping us attract the company that we keep. But it was very clear to us that a new model forward was to allow, encourage team development and creating an annuity for the principal brokers that would survive and endure well past their retirement. So in the sunset of life, they’re not sunsetting their income streams. And, you know, you think about the fact that our beautiful brand is blue and it matches that passport so wonderfully. I mean, our elite brokers at the top of their game should be traveling the world and making global referrals and relying on their local team to play on the ball and to handle that book of business instead of retiring. And we noticed that some of our competitive brands that are peers in our industry are on tapped models, don’t allow teams. And many of these top performing brokers are on their own, aging out. In a brand that’s very dominant but maybe doesn’t encourage the teams. And so we want to provide them with a new runway to take off in a new way. And, you know, I watched what Rachel and Robyn have done, formerly the Robyn and Rachel group, creating RE-VESTA. And, you know, just learning how you have helped launch some of those, supporting brokers that have joined your team. Rachel, is not just rewarding for you financially, but, I mean, this is a personal business, and you must feel like a parent, to that team. 

Schindler: I do, we just did our team photos, and I was like, look at my babies. But it is such a joy, and I really, I know that there’s a lot of other agents who would find the same joy in mentoring other agents along, because seeing their growth is what gets me really, really excited. And it is a passion that I have. And I’ll be able to spread throughout the entire RSIR family, and take on more mentorships and help more agents become successful full time real agents, which is what Sotheby’s agents are.  

Hartnett: Rachel, you left Compass, and then we turned to RSA. What made you come back? And what does it say about the power of brand recognition and the referral networks in real estate today? 

Schindler: I think for Robyn and myself, when we did a deep dive in our business and how it impacted us when we moved over to Compass and the support we were or weren’t getting, and the connections that we had made at Sotheby’s, when we lost those and moved over to Compass, we just realized we really miss those that needed those back. Realogic Sotheby’s International Realty does a great job in helping us with our marketing. They help us with our networking. They help us with our events, and we have these amazing offices as resources for us. We just hosted 45 agents from all over the United States for a Summer in Seattle event at the Bellevue office. We never could have done that at Compass. And so when we looked deep into our business and where we wanted to grow and how we wanted to grow, Sotheby’s was home for us. And those connections are what are driving a big part of our business.  

Hartnett: Val, you’ve highlighted 12 specific advantages of RSIR. Which one do brokers notice first and which one do they say keeps them here long term? 

Burmester: Oh, I love this question because I can recite them all by heart. We have 12 core advantages at Realogics Sotheby’s International Realty, I know most people stay and come to a brokerage for culture and collaboration and we have that. I’ve been in other brokerages before where if I was in a meeting and I shared a new listing, I would get the response, “how did you get that?” And it wasn’t it wasn’t nice, it was “why didn’t they get that?” instead of, “what can I do to help you, congratulations — that’s an amazing listing, if you need help at your broker’s opens,” or “I had a little mini farm like that before I put out a really cool brochure. Do you want to see it? I’ll send it over.” I mean, it’s just an amazing collaboration of agents. We, in our meetings, everybody’s nice to each other. Complimentary. We have, Dean loves events, and he gives us so many opportunities for events and, you know, unfortunately, can’t go to all more because I swear, there’s one a week. And he does this. He has these beautiful office spaces just for us to use for client engagement, to have our own little meetings with our own little groups. 

They’re beautiful offices, they’re they were built and his design was for collaboration and culture. And we have that. And I don’t think anybody else has what we have. It’s very special. I feel like I’m in the room with the best. 

The second one would definitely be the referral network. It’s about a $5.5 billion referral network. It’s agent to agent mostly. We have over 24 networking opportunities alone this year where you could go to different events around the country from our global networking event to Level Up, to Texas networking was just recently, agents have the opportunities to go and meet other agents. So when you’re sitting at a listing appointment and somebody says they’re moving to Nashville, you can give them, you know, one to three agents to call and interview that are an extension of you because really, what they want is you in Nashville and vice versa. And I think that that’s why we’re so successful. And I also think that that’s what Robert Reffkin wanted. He wanted that networking. It took us years to build that and it’s so special. There’s a pickleball network. There’s a golf network. There’s — I mean — you name it, there’s an equestrian court. And these are agents that this is their passion and they’re sharing their clients that are golfers and, you know, pickleball players. I mean, it’s just it’s so exciting and fun. And nobody has this. They may have one family reunion or one event a year, or they might go to a ninja, but we have alone this year, I counted there was over 24 networking opportunities that were extended invitations to all of us. It’s pretty special.  

Hartnett: Dean, you’ve compared a flight to quality versus a flight to quantity. Can you explain what that means for Realtors in today’s market and why quality is the winning strategy?  

Jones: Well, there’s been a lot of disruption in our industry. We’ve had, I think a couple of years ago we saw more agents in practice licensed throughout the U.S. than we ever had in history, and 50% of them did either 0 or 1 transaction OK. And obviously there’s been compression on commissions and on sales volumes. We’re at, you know, multi-decade lows for U.S. home sales. So something’s got to give. And amongst this you’ve seen a couple of models emerge. There are agents that are investing in their future into a full service, full fee brand, such as ourselves, that we would liken to a flight to quality. And there are other discount models, rebate, you know, brokerages, low fee, low service or no service, cloud-based firms that are also producing a significant amount of market share increases because those agents have to make a decision, are they going to do a higher volume of transactions with lower net commission rate and lower sales volume, or are they going to increase their sales prices and increase their net income by investing in their future? 

And that’s where we want to partner with them. I don’t believe you can save your way to prosperity. But I’ve never seen in 15 years a greater divide between these two models, the flight to quantity, which is going to be higher volume discount models, or the flight to quality, which is full service, full fee. And I believe, the better ascension model for brokers, especially if you’re seeking luxury because for our clients, they are more than happy to pay for your service, your expertise, and for them, the value is in the solution, not in the final settlement at all times. And so maybe, Rachel, you have some thoughts on that.  

Schindler: Yeah, I think for us the Sotheby’s brand, when we go on a listing presentation or when we meet with a buyer just represents a level of excellence and a brand that has been around and been embraced, whether it’s the estate or the auction house or our beautiful blue, it differentiates us significantly from our competition, and I think that that in and of itself is a game changer for any agent.  

Hartnett: Rachel, what’s the one Sotheby’s moment where the brand helped you win a listing or secure client before even crossing the threshold?  

Schindler: The one I mean, our referral network is a big one, right? Because, you know, they call us and all of a sudden we have this handoff and this personal introduction to a client that we never would have known or met. And while that is a wonderful part of our business, for us, it’s a nice little, you know, cherry on top of the wonderful sundae where we have that access to those other connections that we never would have had before. But I do know that we have gotten calls from clients specifically because we’re at Sotheby’s. 

“Oh, you sold my friend’s house, and I know all about Sotheby’s. And so I want you to come and meet with me.” And when we interview against other agents, especially, it is night and day difference when you can show them the support of the brand as a whole. Because the other thing that our relationships do is it enables us to market and promote these listings all over the world, and we have these great affinity groups and networking groups, as Valerie was saying earlier, that also support that additional marketing. 

So you’re a little social media post at Sotheby’s on your personal real estate account might have a thousand views. Well, it goes out to our trusted network or goes out to Next Gen or goes out to EPN and all of a sudden that has 300,000 views. And those are things that Sotheby’s really makes easy to track down and find it, because we are that collaborative and communicative and sharing of the information that we have. 

Hartnett: Looking ahead, RSIR has a goal of 500 agents and $5 billion in sales volume by 2028. For an agent considering joining, how can they be part of that growth story today?  

Jones: Well, we’re going to welcome them to explore their future with our company through a confidential conversation. And best practice is also to speak to one of our brokers, maybe it’s Rachel, maybe it’s Valerie about what the company has done for their business. And keep in mind that we’re going to not reach those goals by just having a thousand agents. I mean, we’re doing the highest production on a per broker basis, increasing their sales value, because of the higher price point, but also adding referrals and new construction and other divisions to their business. So it really is a joint investment that we’re making with our brokers that choose to grow. But that is an intention that is important to us and to those members that are part of our community. And team development is also a part of that. But Val, I’ll throw it to you. I mean, how is that process in your view for making a move?  

Burmester: Well, you know, like Dean is thinking growth, abundance, right? I mean, a growth mindset. And agents think of abundance mindset and we combine the two. Transition is the scariest part of moving brokerages. I hear that every single day talking to agents across the country. They’re scared to do it. They’re afraid of the disruption in their business. We just recently had an agent relocate from wine country to us, and we have a dedicated person in our office who just onboards, and she makes the transaction incredibly smooth. And this particular agent said she’s transitioned to three different brokerages in the past 10 years, from wine country to Montana. And then on here, this was the easiest transition she’s ever had. It was effortless. Her signs were ordered, everything moved. Now, granted, she didn’t have transactions in in in the area at the time. She did have transactions elsewhere that we let her finish them out. It was just beautiful. The other thing is that, you know, Dean meets with agents. We have a meeting every other month. We’ve set up where Dean meets them after or before the meeting so that they’re welcome. I spend a lot of time introducing the newer agents together so that they feel welcome. I’ll send out a text to just certain agents and say, please welcome this agent. I just want everyone to feel like what we feel on a day-to-day basis. And I think it’s like the first day of school and you’re the new kid where you go in and you don’t know anyone, and I want that taken away before they even walk in the door, because our staff and leadership is incredible, and they make you feel amazing. 

And then when you get in the door, if you’ve already met somebody or had a phone call with somebody and then you meet them, you’re like, oh, you’re Rachel, Val told me about you. You called me, thank you. That’s — you can’t beat that. So the transition is the scariest part. We make it effortless.  

Hartnett: Thank you so much, Rachel, Val, and Dean, I appreciate you joining me today and learning more about Realogics Sotheby’s International Realty.